Correspondence from an Idiot II: I’LL SUE YA!

Posted by Ben @ December 8th, 2010 7:17 am. Filed under: Oh Yeah? Let's See You Write A Better Petition!,Wait a minute... this isn't a petition! — Tags: Mr Francis Guidera —

Remember Mr Francis Guidera? No? Maybe this will refresh your memory – in July he contacted us demanding we remove this post where he demanded that the government arrest people who objected to the Pope visiting the UK. We responded with his request with the due care and attention we felt it deserved – namely, we made fun of him.

At the end of November, he reemerged from the murky waters of internet vilification and continued his campaign of scaring us with big legal threats, and so we continued to make fun of him.

I will be honest: I felt a little out of my depth responding to these emails as I wasn’t entirely certain about our legal grounding. With that said, some of my responses to Frank’s emails lose their comedy edge very quickly into the conversation replaced instead with genuine seriousness. Andrew, on the other hand, was far more confident about the whole thing, and in retrospect I wish it had been him who had continued the conversation – he’s much better at this sort of thing.

Let’s read on.

Frank’s first email was super super serious and came with an OMNIOUS LEGAL WARNING. And then it came again, four minutes later.

To: Ben Paddon
From: Frank Guidera
Subject: Final request

Please take note of the copyright notice at the end of this email.

___________________________________________________________________________
I have spoken with an American lawyer based in the UK today and he is quite happy to assist me in taking legal action against you.

I will ask again, please take down the page containing our private email conversation and also the page containing my e-petition and remove all references to my name from your website. If you do we will leave it there and chalk it up to a bad experience for me and a bit of fun for you.

If not, expect a letter in the new year from my lawyer.

Francis Guidera.
___________________________________________________________________________

This email and any files transmitted with it are copyright of the sender and confidential, intended solely for viewing by the individual to whom they are addressed. You, the recipient of this email may not disseminate, print or publish using any form of media, any part of the content of this email. If you have received this email in error please reply with ‘received in error’ and delete the email. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The sender accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email.

Blimey, kids. Doesn’t that sound serious! And look at that legal text at the end, there. That strikes me as incredibly binding and not at all something I should ignore. Certainly it’s not something I should be making fun of.

To: Frank Guidera
From: Ben Paddon
Subject:  RE: Final request
Hi Frank.

We here at But, Sir… Enterprises (a division of Edible Ham Productions, itself a division of a larger corporate entity owned by several anonymous, sinister agents) take all legal matters incredibly seriously. I can assure you that my associates and I have stared at your email long and hard, often while furrowing our brows and stroking our chins. I believe someone – and I’ll name no names – may have sipped at a small glass of brandy during the proceedings.

If you’d like to start by telling us exactly what your legal challenge is, we will begin muttering incoherently to one-another and will upgrade the small glass of brandy to a large decanter of another alcoholic beverage of equal or greater refinement.

Many thanks,
Ben
____________________________________________________________________________________________
IMPORTANT NOTICE: this email is for your eyes only. It is not to be shown, forwarded, copied, read aloud or performed to anyone else under any circumstances. This includes but is not limited to friends, colleagues, roommates, parents, teachers, houseplants, wicker baskets, firemen, swarms of bees, the 1966 England football squad, or combinations and/or variations thereupon. Failing to comply with this notice will be swiftly punished by the full extent of whichever laws we are able to come up with. This sender accepts no responsibility for any negative reviews that may appear in any local, national, or international publications as a result of performing this email to an audience (which, you are reminded, is expressly forbidden).

Fair question, I think – he hasn’t told us what we’ve done wrong, so it makes sense to establish his legal grounding before my fictional cohorts and I make a final decision as to whether or not to take down the posts. To ensure he doesn’t show this clearly very important email to anyone else I drafted an airtight legal footnote which must be taken 100% seriously at all times. Even now.

I can only assume that Mr Guidera is an upstanding citizen, as he did the best he could to oblige. Or possibly he just danced around the issue. What do you think?

To: Ben Paddon
From: Frank Guidera
Subject: RE: RE: Final request

Ben. This is no joke. Please don’t laugh this off.

I’ll forward this on to the lawyer.

You have until the end of December to comply. If it’s not gone by then, I’ll instruct him to proceed.

This document is strictly confidential and is intended only for use by the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or other action taken in reliance of the information contained in this email is strictly prohibited.

If you have received this transmission in error, please use the reply function to tell us and then permanently delete what you have received.

Oh no! The end of December? That’s a month away! Oh, hang on, he sent another email:

And just to be sure, I’ll check with the lawyer to make sure I can legally show him this email before doing so as you have a ‘disclaimer’ at the bottom of your reply.

This document is strictly confidential and is intended only for use by the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or other action taken in reliance of the information contained in this email is strictly prohibited.

If you have received this transmission in error, please use the reply function to tell us and then permanently delete what you have received.

Quick, I’d better think of something clever to say. No? Well I guess I’ll get paranoid and become incredibly tense instead:

To: Frank Guidera
From: Ben Paddon
Subject: RE: RE: RE: Final request

Well then! I’ll be super serious from here on out.

I once again request that you state your actual legal challenge so that I may run it by my lawyers and see if any action is necessary on our part. No content can be removed from the website until we can establish actual legal grounds for doing so.

Fondest regards,
~Ben

Fun fact: I don’t actually have any lawyers, but I have seen “Liar Liar” six times.

Frank continued to tip-toe around the request (In the interests of readability I’ll be ommiting his little legal text from his emails going forward.):

To: Ben Paddon
From: Frank Guidera
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: Final request

Any content CAN be removed as you are the administrator.

I will ask my lawyer to contact you directly.

He’s got a point – I’m a site administrator and I can do whatever I want! What I don’t want to do, though, is anything Mr. Guidera tells me to do.

To: Frank Guidera
From: Ben Paddon
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Final request

Well using that logic we could take down the entire site if we wanted to. What I am trying to establish is if there is any legal need to, and to that end I need to know on what legal grounds you make that request.

I like to think I’m pressing hard and firm now. Mmmm.

To: Ben Paddon
From: Frank Guidera
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Final request

Perhaps you should. I seriously doubt the petition site will be opened again.

The situation is this. If you don’t feel you need to take the things relating to me down (and I have asked) the only option left to me is to prosecute you and that is why I have involved a lawyer who specialises in internet law both in the UK an USA. I am not going to go into the specific law as that is up to my lawyer.

Like I said, I will talk to him tonight via email and ask if he will communicate with you via email.

Anyhow, I’ll just ask again nicely. No sarcasm. Please take the stuff off the net.

Francis.

Y’know, he actually does have a point here – the ePetition site probably won’t be relaunched despite promises to the contrary. It’s saddening – depressing, even. What will we do with this blog? How will we spend our times if not trawling through the petition site looking for examples of idiocy? Well, if nothing else, this conversation is evidence that if you wait long enough the idiots will come to you.

Again, Frank’s attempts to avoid telling us exactly what his legal challenge is continue, although he did tr being sort-of reasonable. Which is nice. It’s also fruitless.

To: Frank Guidera
From: Ben Paddon
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Final request

Until you’ve outlined the legal reasons for us to pull the posts we’ve no obligation to do any such thing. So far your entire side of the conversation has been “Take it down or in telling” but you’ve yet to tell us the legal grounds for doing so. Whiter you choose to get a lawyer involved or not you can’t expect us to just yank the posts without telling us why.

It’s worth mentioning at this point in the story that I have been responding to Mr. Guidera’s emails on my iPhone, where auto-correct has caused my last sentence to wilt.

To: Ben Paddon
From: Frank Guidera
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Final request

Is your website is so important to you that you would risk criminal prosecution in the UK?

I will leave it up to my lawyer to explain how serious this is and how it may affect you.
He will contact you but it may not be until January.

And just so you know I am not bluffing, here is his firm’s website.

http://tehays.com/Services.htm

I am quite happy not to proceed if you will just comply with my request and remove my details and writings from your website.

Francis.

Oh no, an actual firm of solicitors! They’ve been named! They have a website and everything! Let’s have a look at their “About Us” page (emphasis mine):

Our practice covers all areas of the law applicable to developing technologies, governmental regulation, corporate transactions and finance throughout Europe, North America and Asia. This includes patents, trademarks, design rights and copyright, information technology, e-commerce, and media, life sciences, alternative energy and climate change, competition and anti-trust, commercial contracts and international trade. We act for clients ranging from small start-up businesses to long-established multi-national groups.

Alright then.

To: Frank Guidera
From: Ben Paddon
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Final request

If I were to receive a criminal prosecution as a result of a civil lawsuit I imagine it would be a landmark case with far-reaching repercussions on UK law.

Let me ask you a question: is your claim (or case, if you like) so important to you that you can’t disclose to us what your legal basis is? So far this conversation has consisted of you telling me you’re going to sue, followed by me asking you what for, followed by you flat out refusing to tell us what it is you feel we’ve done and repeatedly demanding we take down entries from our site with your name on them. We feel no compulsion to comply to a request which ends “…or I’ll sue!!” when you haven’t even told us what it is exactly you’d be suing us for.

If you wish to tell us what your legal grounds are for making such a request I assure you – I promise you – that your request will be seriously considered.

I was 100% sincere about that promise, too. Pity Frank had no interest on taking me up on it.

To: Ben Paddon
From: Frank Guidera
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Final request

Nobody said it was going to be a civil case.

I can’t give you details because I myself am unsure of the legalities. But the lawyer is.

So, I will have him contact you. He is very sure and as you can see, specialises in this field.

So we finally have an answer, in the form of “I don’t know, I’ll let my lawyer get back to you on that”.

To: Frank Guidera
From: Ben Paddon
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Final request

Surely you must have some idea of what, legally speaking, is objectionable about the content in question. You must understand it from our point of view – so far you’ve requested we take down the pages with your name on, or you’ll sue. You’ve not stated what you find objectionable about those pages and you have yet to tell us the grounds on which we are legally obliged to drop them.

I’d hope I’ve been reasonable during this conversation. I’ve asked for specific information that Frank has been unwilling to provide, and then he’s finally provided an answer which isn’t really satisfactory and so I’ve pressed him on it.

To: Ben Paddon
From: Frank Guidera
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Final request

Everything you have published relating to me invades my right to privacy. Again, I have talked to a lawyer who will be able to point out why he feels we can go after you on this.

Now, until I speak to the lawyer I can tell you no more as I know nothing more.

Surely thst’s the sort of thing the lawyer should have told him before he contacted me to say “Take it down OR ELSE!!!11!1″. I mean, that strikes me as a piece of basic but vital information in these sorts of proceedings.

To: Frank Guidera
From: Ben Paddon
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Final request

Two points of interest:

1.) You submitted your initial petition to a public forum – the ePetition website. Reproducing that petition and providing a link to the original is not, as far as I am aware, infringing upon your privacy as the information contained in the petition was already available.

2.) As far as I am aware – and I’m sure Andrew can do a better job of confirming this as I’m not familiar with the specifics – correspondence becomes the property of the recipient and not the sender. If the opposite were true you’d see legal cases popping up as a result of the display and/or publication of letters. Additionally I’d like to refer you to SomethingAwful.com who have a history of posting legal threats on their website without repercussion.

Everyone who has even a passing interest in law will cite Something Awful during a case sooner or later. it’s a well-documented phenomenon. I’m actually still unsure as to whether the second point is in any way accurate – I remember hearing it second-hand somewhere a long time ago. It sounds reasonable, but then so does a lot of things prohibited by law. At the very least I’m quite confident that there’s no legal right to privacy on personal correspondence, and his petition remains on the government’s website.

As it is, I think I make some interesting points. Frank doesn’t seem convinced, though.

To: Ben Paddon
From: Frank Guidera
Subject:  RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Final request

Ben. Live in the real world. You are not a lawyer. Andrew is not a lawyer as far as I am aware (and almost certainly not a lawyer who specialises in EU & EU law). My lawyer, funnily enough, is a lawyer who specialises in EU & EU law as well as internet law and defamation (did you see how this time I didn’t fall foul of spell check with that word) and he is American as well!

And my lawyer says we can almost certainly get a judgment against you in the UK with little effort.

It’s up to you.

And don’t waste any more time coming up with your layman’s interpretations of the law.

Either do as I asked, or expect legal action after in January. I am fed up with trying to reason with you.

Francis.

Reasoning with me? Is that what he’s been trying to do? It sounds more like bullying to me, but hey, what do I know? I bite the heads off fish.

Nearly two weeks pass without further contact from either him or his lawyer, who was supposed to get back to us soon about what Frank’s case actually is. And then, a couple of days ago, I received this email:

To: Ben Paddon
From: Frank Guidera
Subject:  RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Final request

Hi Ben.

I am torn in two directions. Obviously, I would like the personal emails you published to be taken down, but at the end of the day, free speech is something I would defend rather than attack.

I have talked to your hosting provider, made legal threats and they are understanding, but are following current U.S. law. so can do nothing. But you are British and I could contact the British police and file a police report against you as you have broken U.K. laws with your religiously aggravated online ‘bullying / harassment’. The police would then wish to speak with you when you stepped foot into this country as you would become wanted for questioning. But I won’t mainly because my lawyer says action we take could cause you serious problems with your immigrant status in the USA which is taking this far too far but also because what a lot of hassle for something so trivial.

So, merry Christmas, and a happy new year.

Wow. What a guy, selflessly giving up on his crusade against the Big Bad Internet for the sake of lil’ ol’ me, a Brit living in LA. Granted, almost all of his given reasons in this email are absolute bollocks – I don’t think responding to his emails in a humorous manner constitutes bullying, and certainly nothing we’ve done counts as harassment. There’s definitely nothing religiously-charged about the whole thing other than the fact that it was sparked by his petition against people protesting the Pope which, let’s be honest, is a bit ridiculous considering the Pope has gone out of his way to protect Catholic paedophiles ostensibly in his employ both in the UK and worldwide. But hey, whatever floats your candle, Frankie.

I sent him a lovely email to say thank you, just in case it turns out he went away and become a fully-qualified lawyer who specialises in EU & EU Law:

To: Frank Guidera
From: Ben Paddon
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Final request

his is exceptionally charitable of you, good sir. Thank you for your kindness.

I will be spending Christmas at my stepsister’s house in Palmdale. They’re an odd lot – Americans usually are – and they have a number of little Christmas traditions chief amongst them being the naming of the Christmas turkey. I will do everything I can to ensure that this year’s turkey is named Frank, in honour of your exceptional kindness over this matter.

I will also have the yams named Percy, but that’s over another dispute our little blog has caused and I’m sure you don’t want me to bore you with the details.

Have a splendid Christmas (or indeed, whatever winter festival you may choose to celebrate).

~Ben

GAWD BLESSUS, EVERYONE.

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